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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2010, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Rollers to Heavy?

Hey guys still messing with clutching on my 08 650XT.

Before we went to Utah last year I installed 24 gram rollers (not including the sleeve) if memory serves correctly they were 14 stock, had the primary machined, and cranked up the helix on the secondary.

It worked good for out there but when I got home I put the helix back to it's stock location.

Went for a spin today and could hit 45 with the windshield up (way to cold to do a run with it down) which I thought was pretty good, but any type of incline it drops in a hurry to 40 and holds around there. Runs at 5000 rpm wide open.

Suppose the heavier weights are throwing out to fast?

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2010, 04:24 PM
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too much resistance, its not the rollers that are slowing you down its resistance and power. your bike is running out of power to top itself out. it should climb higher than 5000RPM but with the windshield up the wind resistance is fierce and the motor dont have enough to overcome it.

BTW what made you install 24 gram rollers? and what made you clock the secondary? those are both against everything i say for your particular bike. the machined primary and the secondary clocked is a bad idea regardless of which bike its on, and the 24 gram rollers are WAY too heavy for that bike. i bet your shiftout is only like 4500RPM. with a set of 19s you'll get up higher like 6000RPM shiftout which is where most like to be with the 650 motors. and your factory rollers were they red or blue? some are different depending on your elevation. different parts of the country get different bikes, most northern bikes (higher elevation) got red rollers 19 gram but most of the southern bikes got the blue 21 gram rollers. they put you about where you need to be with the machining. on a 650 i like the red 19s alot. it gets the RPMs up about where you want them to make power. a 24 gram roller is WAY too heavy for your bike unless you want to run low RPMs on the trails.

///AIRDAM clutch machining
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2010, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AIRDAM View Post
too much resistance, its not the rollers that are slowing you down its resistance and power. your bike is running out of power to top itself out. it should climb higher than 5000RPM but with the windshield up the wind resistance is fierce and the motor dont have enough to overcome it.

BTW what made you install 24 gram rollers? and what made you clock the secondary? those are both against everything i say for your particular bike. the machined primary and the secondary clocked is a bad idea regardless of which bike its on, and the 24 gram rollers are WAY too heavy for that bike. i bet your shiftout is only like 4500RPM. with a set of 19s you'll get up higher like 6000RPM shiftout which is where most like to be with the 650 motors. and your factory rollers were they red or blue? some are different depending on your elevation. different parts of the country get different bikes, most northern bikes (higher elevation) got red rollers 19 gram but most of the southern bikes got the blue 21 gram rollers. they put you about where you need to be with the machining. on a 650 i like the red 19s alot. it gets the RPMs up about where you want them to make power. a 24 gram roller is WAY too heavy for your bike unless you want to run low RPMs on the trails.

Everything I read on ArcticChat said to clock the secondary up, the machining was done to give better low end as you well know..

The reason I up'ed the roller weight was when I did the modded sheave and clocked the secodary I had no top end so I incresed the roller weight. It worked good for Utah but now that I'm running it at home I undid the secondary.

I figured I was to heavy but wanted to try it after undoing the secondary.

Mine came with the blue rollers, now are you talking total weight metal and sleeve when you are quoting weights? I believe the metal roller alone was only 14 grams stock. I had drilled them down to 12 thinking it would help but it didn't, great launch though. LOL

I'm around 1200 feet above sea level by the way.

Appreciate all your help

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-21-2010, 10:05 PM
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well i dont ever weight just the metal ring. i always use the weight of the sleeve and the ring. when i give a weight in grams, it is the entire roller sleeve and metal ring together.

your bike will have more giddy-up and go with a set of 19s all the way around and the machining, and a stock secondary setting. however with the lighter rollers, you wont have as much gains for top speed because the lighter rollers wont push hard enough against the metal fixed plate to completely close the primary up. its gonna be a balancing act, do you want more top speed with a lackluster midrange and low end, or more midrange pull but a little less MPH? the lighter rollers will give you more RPMs and more power, but wont really give you much MPH gains. the heavier rollers will lower your shiftout RPMs and give you a flatter midrange since you aren't pulling any RPMs and therefore not really making any power but you get more top speed out of them.

regardless leave the secondary stock. clocking that thing will give you crazy results with the machining.

///AIRDAM clutch machining
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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I'll have to do some rooting around to see what weights I have around here. I'd like to be in between low end grunt and speed.

The modded sheave gives me plenty of launch even with the heavy rollers.

Thanks Adam for all the advice

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-25-2010, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Airdam
Have you ever played with mixing the weights? Half heavier and half lighter staggered every other one to get a combo?

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
Tiger Tail Towing system
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2010, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, put the stock roller weights back in.

Also took out the modded fixed plate, there were some deep grooves in the roller sleeves. Thinking it was from the heavier rollers throwing out to hard but not sure so figured I'd put the stock fixed plate back in.

Next question for you airdam. Have you ever done all 5 mods to a 650 Prowler? If so what kind of gains were there. I know the atvs have good results but wondering more about the heavy old Prowler.

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
Tiger Tail Towing system
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-31-2010, 10:19 PM
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the reason your rollers had grooves in them is the way i did the plate, i have since learned a way to keep them from doing that. thats my mistake and i can fix those rollers if you like.

i have done some 650 prowlers they tend to do nicely. about 65ish mph in high range, great low end performance, and a smooth pull from slow speed to top speed.

///AIRDAM clutch machining
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-01-2010, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the confusion.

I did the fixed plate mod myself (before I had heard of you so you are not responsible for this.

I did file the edges down after bending them and there are no sharp edges, it's almost like the heavy wieghts threw out before the fixed plate could come in and kind of wedged them there until I backed off the throttle again. The googes are deep and it is only from one run of about 20 miles because they weren't there when I unclocked the helix. Which is what makes me think it was the weight of the roller.

Also noticed just a little scuffing in the cover from the belt that wasn't there before.

These heavy rollers were in with the helix wound up and had no problems but once I undid the helix it created a problem (not as much backshift force???

I'm going to have to get some cash together and send them down to you. Probably going to be awhile though as our trails are about to open and don't want to miss any riding.

What is your turn around time for all 5 mods?

2010 Prowler XTZ 1000-
27" Grim Reaper Tires/Home Made Roof/Arctic Cat Mirror/Quadboss Folding Windshield w/ home made support bar/LED Tail-Brake lights//Venom 4000 lb Winch/Amsteel synthetic line/Home Made Doors/Custom Adjustable Seats/Custom Oh Crap bar for passenger/Tonneau Cover/Fat Max storage Box in bed
Tiger Tail Towing system
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