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What makes this thing tick (2)

20K views 78 replies 7 participants last post by  zticket 
#1 ·
I'm thinking I'm the first guy to ever rebuild the 1000 cat motor, Prowler or Wildcat! No help on YouTube that I can find! WOW!!
The good news is I have it back together! I replaced every lower bearing, seals, and gaskets, along with a new crank, new cylinders, new pistons, and all top end gaskets. Everything is new accept the cases and the heads up! SO MY ISSUE IS: Everything is done correct including the CAM TIMING, triple quadruple checked prior to turning it over with the top end bolted down. Valves adjusted prior to turning it over. What I have is a click on the exhaust valves when I hit top dead center on the front cylinder! Why? Bad valve guides? Bent valve stems? The sound is similar to as if you broke the end of your pencil lead on a pencil. Holding my fingers on top of the adjuster I can feel it clearly coming from the exhaust valves! And I can't say for sure but it doesn't feel like it has good compression on that cylinder where I clearly hear compression on the rear cylinder. Any ideas guy's? If it makes a noise like this turning it over by hand ya can only imagine the noise it will have when running!
 
#2 ·
I take it you are rolling it over by hand with the spark plug out. Happening as the exhaust valve is closing, I take it? Could some carbon build up fallen off the valve and stuck under the valve seat? The old spark plug electrode wasn't mashed up when you took it out, was it? Just wondering if the old piston kissed the plug and knocked some crap loose that could be between the valve and the seat? Just scratching my chin, thinking. Hard to TS&R when you can't put your hands on it. Wish I was there to see it, Butch...
 
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#3 ·
I t may be the compression release start feature on the cam' If it rolls over by hand and no sigh other than the clicking noise I'd lay money on the compression release. I roll mine over by hand and have no interference other than the noise. The cam in question may have a spring and centrifugal weight on the cam.
 
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#4 ·
Yes, I am turning the motor over by hand on the bench........
I scratched my head and every other area on my body with hair trying to figure it out. I had everything so clean Bryan ya could eat out of the bottom pan..........
AND THE WINNER IS.....RD, YOU GOT IT!............. DAM COMPRESSION RELEASE! I called a buddy of mine in Iowa that spent 33 years in an Arctic Cat shop that's rebuilt many tops on the 1000's and that's what he said it was! ****, have a head with valves installed in it on the way, bwaaaahahahaha. Thought I had bad guides and this was the easy way out to check it. Oh well, she's ready to be lifted and dropped back in:laugh:Now I have a spare head that I'll never need, ha!
Good call RD! Will keep you all posted.
Another thing I found was my outer drive clutch sheaves were shot! Turns out that big bearing on the shaft behind the one way bearing was real bad. Remember RD when I was chasing that clutch noise problem? I had pointed out at that time I thought there was play in that shaft! After installing the new bearing a guy can really tell the difference. She's tight and unreal how much smoother and quiet she free rolls! I'm getting to really know what makes this big motor TICK, inside and out!
 
#5 ·
Thinking back now I wonder if that bearing behind the clutch being bad didn't send enough vibration through the crank to cause the crankshaft to fail?
 
#6 ·
Good to know! I just picked a USB camera off ebay for 16 dollars! It is small enough to go in the sparkplug hole! It Plugs into my laptop for viewing! I'll give a product summary if it is worth a dam! Back to the crankshaft bearing failure, any vibration not normal would have to cause wear! Glad I learned a few things on Prowlers! LOL
 
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#7 ·
Making sure you saw the post above about the compression release!

Yes, I am turning the motor over by hand on the bench........
I scratched my head and every other area on my body with hair trying to figure it out. I had everything so clean Bryan ya could eat out of the bottom pan..........
AND THE WINNER IS.....RD, YOU GOT IT!............. DAM COMPRESSION RELEASE! I called a buddy of mine in Iowa that spent 33 years in an Arctic Cat shop that's rebuilt many tops on the 1000's and that's what he said it was! ****, have a head with valves installed in it on the way, bwaaaahahahaha. Thought I had bad guides and this was the easy way out to check it. Oh well, she's ready to be lifted and dropped back in:laugh:Now I have a spare head that I'll never need, ha!
Good call RD! Will keep you all posted.
Another thing I found was my outer drive clutch sheaves were shot! Turns out that big bearing on the shaft behind the one way bearing was real bad. Remember RD when I was chasing that clutch noise problem? I had pointed out at that time I thought there was play in that shaft! After installing the new bearing a guy can really tell the difference. She's tight and unreal how much smoother and quiet she free rolls! I'm getting to really know what makes this big motor TICK, inside and out!
 
#8 ·
just got on , was going to say what RD did

I had one {CR] go bad and the rig wouldn't run worth a crap , would even hardly pull itself up the ramps , and the sounds as if it was eating itself alive.
 
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#9 ·
Going to head uptown today and grab my advancing timing light to see where these 1000's run at. Seeing how I have a fuel controller with an O2 sensor and the maps set at 13.2 a/f it shouldn't be running lean so the timing may be severely retarded to meet some sort of emission standard. Not understanding why these 1000's run so hot and exhaust to glow red..
 
#10 ·
Tim, never known mine to run hot! Seems on the normal side comparing it to other brands and my old H1
 
#11 ·
Hope this fixes it, Butch! I'm learning more about these things by just being here. Almost ready to tear mine down, just to freshen it up.
 
#13 ·
I did my 650 top end 2 years ago prior to trading it on the 1000. Half the job of course but one thing I recommend is pulling the engine out so it's on a bench in front of you. It took me about 3 hours to get the cylinder back on that 650 without killing the rings. I had to get a blood transfusion from all the cuts I had! Faster to pull the motor and way easier. JMO ;)
 
#12 ·
Not really a bad machine to work on, the manual is pretty much dead on! Picked up another tool/toy! Inspection camera that fits through the sparkplug hole! Ebay special 49.95 plus mailing! Hard to beat for the price! Makes checking the cylinder a breeze! Not sure but I think WalMart may also carry them! I just love diagnostic stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
 

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#14 ·
I want :nerd:
 
#15 ·
Found several that I thought would work! Mini 7mm USB Endoscope Inspection Camera Borescope 2m Cable Waterproof 6LED Cam | eBay, and
Whistler WIC-1229C Diagnostic Inspection Camera | eBay.
The first one shown plugs into a laptop and shows JPE files. It has a 6 foot cord, and the camera is 1mm smaller. I am very impressed with the one I showed pictures of. It is a tight fit in the sparkplug hole, but it does fit with no damage to the head, or the camera. The endo one may be better for shop use, plus it is only 15 dollars! May not be worth anything, but I'll let everyone know either way!
 
#16 ·
Received the Endoscope camera! 16 dollars off ebay! It has a 6 foot lead, camera is smaller, plugs into a laptop, and includes the software! The head is smaller than the handheld unit, also has a mirror that fits the head. Other feature is the ability to control the lighting with a switch on the cord. Still find it hard to believe that they sell these for 16 dollars! I'll carry the handheld on the road, and keep the laptop one in my shop. Very nice being able to look at the piston, valves, and cylinder without any major work! For my use, I'd buy both again! I give them 5 star ratings!
 

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#17 ·
I think I need me one!
 
#18 ·
The camera is waterproof! Pretty nifty! Compares to stuff costing 10X's the amount! LOL! I could be a salesman for them! Made in China is the only drawback.
 
#20 ·
Makes a lot of sense! I'm not familiar with the 1000's, so I'll bow out gracefully!
 
#22 ·
It does! At rest the round portion of the pin (located in the cam lobe) is facing the rocker arm pad. At low rpm (starting) it cause the exhaust valve to bump partially open. As rpm increase the centrifugal weight rotates the pin to the flat position allowing the cam, and lifter to operate normally. I keep looking for abnormal wear pattern, but have not found anything! The amount of lift at the pin is very little, but it does unseat the exhaust valve. AC states that if the compression relief is damaged, or not working the cam needs to be replaced.
 

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#23 ·
I'm thinking mine is stuck in decompression mode since new, haven't taken rocker box off yet as I don't have time to figure how to get air box and associated bracketry off easily as it is still below freezing out in shelter. Another springtime project, I wonder if Webb Cams could answer that question if I really need it or if I could use a rear cam in place of the front one.
 
#24 · (Edited)
They are pretty knowledgeable! I spoke with Melissa when I found my web cam damaged, and she pointed me to an oiling issue. I over looked the oil passage when I put my first set of studs in my block! You should be able to see the mechanism from the rocker arm access port. Web Cam even though the damage was caused by me redid the cam free of charge! All I paid was shipping to and from! I would think both cams carry the same lift, duration and so on. I think they only carry one part number for the heads so it follows that the cams would fit either head. Timing chain line up is something I don't know! Another person to contact may be Marshall at Campbell Enterprises, he knows the 700 pretty good!
 
#25 ·
Now you have me thinking. Sometimes when I go to start mine the starter will get maybe half a revolution and it stops with no start. Almost like when a battery is dead. But then when re-keyed, the starter turns over great and it fires right up. It reminds me of a hydrostatic lock condition, but it isn't. Might be what you guys are talking about, which would make it a normal condition, as soon as the cam hits that position, the exhaust opens, compressions relieved, starter turns over with no restriction and the motor starts.
Very freaking interesting! I think.....
 
#26 ·
I have experienced the same thing, but with no other issues I just tacked it up as a Prowler thing! The cam is an interesting design!
 
#27 ·
Talked to Webb cams and I think it was the same lady that RD spoke to as she was very knowledgeable also. I explained my issue and she said they could disable the decompression mech. I asked if it was ever done before and do I really need it and she said talk to doug @ SpeedWerks as Webb Cams builds the cams for them. So I called Doug and he said just buy a new cam from AC at the tune of 265.00 and try it to see if a stock replacement fixes the problem. I asked if they ever disabled the comp mech and he said no. So I think I will order a new cam from AC and ship it to Webb for a Tig weld to disable the comp mech as there is a 4 week turnaround from them and try it. According to the DynoJet fuel tables it is pulling lots of fuel out mid band just like it has low compression so what is another $500.00 bill to try to fix this. already changed out all the interior plastic, rear cargo box and $1K in fueling controllers, 1500.00 in exhaust systems. Too much into it to sell it and buy something else...
 
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#28 ·
#29 ·
Did they determine if the rear cam would work in the front cylinder? Just curious on that! Ya know us little kids , why,why,why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
 
#30 ·
I don't think you want to attempt eliminating the decompression cam. I was told it could cause the starter to be blown off the case. In fact I know a 650 with that problem very problem and we think it's because the decompressor failed. Second time it's happened to him and it also wrecks the starter. He now needs the cases and a new starter. SAY'S HE'LL SELL IT CHEEP!!!
 
#31 ·
Cheap huh? Hmmm..... Interesting!
 
#33 ·
Said he'd take 2500
 
#32 ·
I was wondering about turning it over without the CR. It sure would work the starter motor!
 
#35 ·
That is more than likely the best choice! Have you ever had that head off? I need to learn more about the 1000! Still looking for a basket case to buy. I remember your machine, and how nice it is!
 
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