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Intermittent Screeching Sound.......2010 1000 XTZ

18K views 80 replies 8 participants last post by  Fairmont79 
#1 ·
Wow.......new issue today.........plowing a light snowfall and a screeching sound developed. Seems to be coming from the clutch side of the engine. Makes the almost hearing damaging noise intermittently In any gear, H/L/R, but will go away after moving for a bit in either direction. By intermittent I mean it's not constant. It's not a repeatable noise that changes it's speed or rate with rpm change. When rpm increases the noise gets louder, not faster...... if you understand what I'm saying... And sometimes does not make noise at all. The noise has been there at idle, more deafening at higher rpm. Shifting from forward to reverse is usually a challenge, needing to surge the machine just a bit (into the snow pile, or just a minute surge ahead) and shift to reverse as the rpm drops. Shifting from reverse to low is smooth. Lots of power, clutch seems to be engaging and disengaging properly. After having it screeching on and off for several minutes of use the sound went totally away as I went and parked it.

Wondering.........One way or not? Is there a bearing in the outer case that might go? Engine runs good. Sounds normal.

Hoping to pick some experienced and knowledgeable brains here!!

Thanks
Paxx
 
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#2 ·
I ask 'One way or not? ' because most of what I've read about the one way is a rattling sound, not a screech. This noise definitely sounds like a bad bad bearing of some sort. Not a belt squealing. It is a metal on metal-ish type of sound....
 
#4 ·
AC issued a notice about removing the one way bearing in certain conditions, and snow plowing was one of them. There is a bearing in the outer clutch cover that supports the clutch hub, these have been known to fail, and could be your noise source! I usually bleep the throttle when shifting.
 
#5 ·
I had actually read that bulletin as well. Just not sure if what I'm hearing is indicative of a one way that has gone. Guess the only way I'm gonna know is to pull things apart. Ya, I thought I had read that there was a bearing in the clutch cover. RD....I also blip the throttle too, but as this noise has started it is harder to get it to shift into reverse, and is sometimes quite a struggle.

Now as I look at my XTZ it's looking like a guy has to remove the gas tank probably to get to the clutch. Does anyone know some tricks that save some time an headaches? Also, if it is the one way, is there a gasket on the inner cover the needs to be replaced? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I dive into it.

Thanks for the input Tim and RD!!

Paxx
 
#6 ·
Gaskets are reusable if your careful. One way bearing failure will usually make your machine stall in gear, and if it fails at speed it will try and throw you through the windshield. Unfortunately on the XTZ the gas tank has to be moved/removed to access the clutch cover and remove them. As far as being difficult to get into and out of gears, you may be on an incline, or other means of loading the drivetrain. I take my cable off a couple of times a year t o see if it moves freely. Over 13,000 miles on mine now and still on the original cable, and have only had to adjust it twice! My internals on the transmission still look like new! I drain and inspect the oil and filter for any signs of metal, so far so good! Thinking about going to an aftermarket wet clutch shoes, not sure if Air Dam is still around!
 
#7 ·
Thanks again RD.......so just another quick question.....What should idle be set at after she's warmed up?

re clutch shoes......I don't have any knowledge (well.....I've read here and there) and don't really understand how different shoes, rollers etc affect the clutch. Wanna give me a clutches 101 rundown? ;)

thanks again,
Paxx
 
#8 ·
open that clutch cover asap. i had a screeching sound as well. my ac dealer said to keep driving it and it should go away. every time they would test it out, the sound wouldnt happen. well one day it happened. the screech got so bad it would not go away so i needed to be towed in. glad it was only half a mile but still. turned out something was in my clutch cover from the build. it took out my clutches.
here are some pics. it might not be this but i would hate to wait and find out. it sounded like fingernails on a chalkboard except way louder.
 

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#9 ·
Air Dam at one point in time sold clutch shoes for the Prowlers that had more surface area, and less slip! 101 coming up!
The Prowler uses a wet clutch that helps the belt life as power is applied gradually as rpm's climb. The wet clutch has a stall speed of approx. 2,100 rpm. Once the wet clutch is transferring power to the primary clutch things start to happen! The CVT comes into play. As the primary starts to spin, the clutch rollers start to move the belt higher in the primary clutch, and lowering it in the secondary. The clutch is fine tuned with different weight rollers. I use heavy clutch rollers for street duty (grey 27 gram), lets me cruise at a decent clip without spinning the motor at high rpm. When I ride the sand dunes I use my facory rollers that are fairly light (red 19gram each) in order to keep the rpm up in the power band. For trail riding I use 21 gram rollers and a higher stall speed wet clutch setup. There has been several firms that made wet clutch delete kits, but they are somewhat expensive at 1,900 dollars! I have found that the factory rollers are about 1/2 the cost of aftermarket rollers.

CLUTCH INFO



red rollers = 19 grams = 6000RPM AC # 0823-164
blue rollers = 21 grams = 5500RPM AC # 0823-167
green rollers = 23 grams = 5000RPM AC # 0823-170
white rollers = 25 grams - 4500RPM AC # 3402-483
grey rollers – 28 grams - AC # 0823-295
black rollers – 33 grams AC # 0823-298

17 gram roller - white - 02/375 - 03+400 - part number: 3402-366
19 gram roller - red - prowler 09+700 - part number: 0823-164
21 gram roller - blue - various H1 engines - part number: 0823-167
23 gram roller - green - Tcat engines - part number: 0823-170
25 gram roller - white - 06+ 500 - part number: 3402-482
25 gram roller - white - 00- 09 500 - part number: 3402-483
28 gram roller - gray - 10/650MP - 11+700mp - 12 WildCat - part number: 0823-295
33 gram roller - black - 10+ Tcat mudpro - part number: 0823-298


These RPM numbers associated with each set of weights is only a close guess. every machine will respond differently depending on altitude, tire size, and power adders. the more power you have, the heavier roller you can run for a faster upshift, and more RPMs. if i were you with that power you have, i would run the reds at the LEAST, and possibly even lighten up a set to get them even lighter. in the dunes to run ballz out, about 17-18 grams is where an H1 motor needs to be, and my stage 2 fixed plate work even helps the shiftout even more. it helps keep the rollers lower in the shiftout range, keeping you in a lower gear longer, but allowing you to build the RPMs you need for power, which allows the engine to rev into the power band, and not upshift too fast and bog the motor down.
__________________
///AIRDAM clutch machining
< Airdam Clutches - For People Who Want to Go Fast! >

________________________________________
Info.. From Airdam post in one of my thread's

C-1 is 34 degrees of preload on the spring so yeah its a little more than the others here is a graph to show it all to you


with the helix facing upwards, you turn the top movable sheave clockwise, tightening the spring up giving the spring a pre-load to snap the clutch closed.

the A,B,C settings are incremental in 1,2,3,4 hole positions on the helix itself. meaning if you leave the spring in the
 
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#10 · (Edited)
Found the cause..... Wet Clutch...One Way Bearing

RD.......that is a great and clear explanation of clutches!!!! Most excellent!!. Thanks!!

So I pulled mamma's car out and pulled the prowler into the heated bay today and tore into her. Actually once a guy knows what needs to take off. it's not that bad a job to remove the seats, floor and move the tank........well, after i got the frozen ice/mud chipped out from around the tank and frame. I then put a jack under it and removed the rear tire and tilted the box to get better yet access. The outer cover came off easy. Belt and pulleys look brand new. The shaft steady bearing in the outer cover was in good shape. I started up the machine in neutral and revved her up and the clutch worked just great, but the noise was still coming from yet inside. So off came the primary and secondary's and then drained the oil. No filings on the magnet, but oil was a bit dark!!! Then removed the inner cover, and then the wet clutch cover......... Aahhhhhhh........very very interesting. A bunch of things. The one-way bearing fell apart on removal. So at least that was one thing. But I had some intuition that something was going on in the wet clutch. Not sure what triggered the thought, but when I went to put a socket on the LH nut, it came off by hand......Totally Loose!!!! There is obvious wear on the wet clutch and the housing that it spins, that it had been loose and wearing on parts it's not meant to touch.The sides of the Wet clutch itwlef were raw and rough from spinning against things as well as the actual shoes are almost unrecognizable. I wonder how a nut meant to be torqued at 221 ft lbs. and loctite would be finger loose??

Good news is I was able to turn the housing (with the output shaft attached) in my lathe and make things like new again.Needed to turn it down about .025". Not as bad as I thought. I do need to replace the wet clutch though. It's very battered up. Found a few on eBay that look to be in decent shape. Will probably go that route. And obviously I will NOT be replacing the one way!!

Thanks to incredible amount of info I have received here, and info that has accumulated here over the years, I was more than confident to tackle this and know that I'd find the issues.

Oh, RD......btw the rollers in my clutch's drive pulley are the green ones. They look brand new!!

The bad news......... Mamma's nice enclosed warm parking place is not available for her vehicle till parts come!!!! I'll be busy knocking off the 'Honey Do' list to stay in the good graces!!! I do have to say though that mamma, who was not keen at all about this machine acquisition, actually came out yesterday as I was plowing and rode with me for a bit (before the screeching noises started) as I pushed a bit of snow.........and she was impressed and quite enjoyed herself!! :) All in all.....I'm a little surprised that she doesn't really seem all that put out that I'm taking up her garage space. She wants it fixed and working well!!!

Some random pics of some of today's findings:

pic of One Way bearing as it came out


2 pics of the Wet Clutch.....doesn't capture the damage.....




Pics of the clutch housing inside....the before grooves and after cleanup on my lathe




 
#11 ·
Like you found out, the job is not all that bad once you get into it! I pitched my one way bearing several years ago, lost some engine braking, but not enough to warrant putting it back in! Nice job on the wet clutch drum! I have several wet clutch shoes off ebay and they are all pretty much the same! You should be proud of yours! I've never seen one that bad! LOL No wonder it was crying for attention! Great pictures and thanks for sharing your update!
 
#12 ·
glad you have the tools to get r done , most of us don't have a lathe so would have to buy new / used or farm it out

GOOD JOB !
 
#13 ·
It was an interesting process getting off the 2 large nuts off the primary and secondary. My Impact is a 1/2 drive, but my sockets that are large enough, 1-1/4 & 1-7/16, are 3/4 drive and I don't have a 1/2 to 3/4 drive adapter!! So from scraps I had laying around I cut a slice of a piece of aluminum square tubing with 1/8" walls. I then cut 2 of the corners out, with one of the "L" shapes being 3/4" per side and the other being .625" (5/8) per side. I used these inside the 3/4" drive socket to adapt to 1/2" Worked like a charm!! :) I guess I should add that I would have just run and bought an adapter, but Lethbridge is an hour away!!!

RD.....are you saying that your experience with ebay wet clutches are nasty? or been OK? Want to know before I order anything. As for mine?........thought I'd frame it!! haha!!

Gary.....At 1st I never thought of my lathe.....actually looked up the part and when I saw it was $135 from Babbitt's I was "Hey wait a minute......bet I can do this on my Lathe" I didn't remove it from the cover either. I just held it and let the shaft spin the bearing. It worked out great.

thanks to all for your willingness to share!! Makes things like this possible!!!

Here's some pics of my adapter....






 
#14 ·
novel approach and out side the box thinking ..love it
 
#16 ·
Yup, Paxx is our kind of people!
 
#15 ·
Paxx, all of my buying on ebay has been positive, just saying the clutches listed are pretty much all the same. 650/700/1000 all use the same clutch. I've compared my 13,000 mile clutch to new and noticed very little difference! Airdam recommended soaking a new clutch in oil before installing. Great idea on the socket adapter! BJFB! LOL
 
#17 ·
Thanks so much!! I have always had an inclination for thinking outside the box and I love it when my ideas actually work!!! Makes me happy that I'm your kind of people!!! I really enjoy the selflessness that goes on here with the sharing of so much knowledge. Hope someday to be able to chip in and add to that knowledge base instead of always just taking!!

Now......RD....never run across BJFB before and you actually stumped me!!! :)

When I get parts and start putting things back together I'll update things. Maybe even some pics or video.....we will see!! ;)

edit: oh and thanks for the info on your experience of the condition of eBay items. That's been pretty much my experience too. I'm gonna get that wet clutch ordered and coming!! Can't have no plowing machine for too long up here.....at least this year!!
 
#18 ·
BJFB Beautiful, Just F---ing Beautiful! PC Correct?????????????????????????????LOL
 
#19 ·
I'll let that slide..... :)
 
#20 ·
Well, that's a new one for me!! Thanks!! :)
 
#21 ·
Me Bad! Hopefully I didn't offend anybody, Apologies are offered!
 
#22 ·
None here!!! I had to laugh and actually shared a new acronym with a co-worker this morning!! :)
 
#23 ·
All in good fun, just bad taste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL I punished myself by working on the Prowler! Thought about selling it when we move, but after looking at it I came to the conclusion that I'm too attached to it! It is second only to my wife! LOL
 
#24 ·
I know the feeling! Denise and I went for a long ride yesterday, put almost 60 miles on. Left our house and went gravie running. Asked her how she felt after riding for an hour or so, because she hated the ride. She loves it with those XTZ shocks on. We kept on cruising. Ended up at the family farm about 25 miles away, went into the woods and she was fine! Just wish it wasn't so noisy inside. We'll keep it! Save my Havoc money for new motors and stuff in the future.
 
#25 ·
Hard to beat that logic! I'd like more power, but really don't need it! On most trails we ride, you are hard pressed to exceed 40mph! The whoops are a challenge with the short wheelbase, but slowing down cures that! PowerSportsNation now has rebuilt engines available that are not that bad in price. I priced several brands out, and 22,000.00 seemed to be the number! I spend about 2,000 a year on mine, enjoy working on it, and I know what I have! Just like a wife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
 
#26 ·
if I was buying a new rig or even a used one I wouldn't be buying a 1000 ...... 99.9% of my riding are at low speed and usually with friends in 700 CC rigs , and the places I ride you can rarely use the full loud pedal 50ish MPH is plenty fast and too fast for much of the trail riding. a waste of $$ IMHO as to pulling and plowing the 700's do just fine , also and I have never been to the dunes to ride [they really don't interest me anyway] where the extra power is nice.

but when I bought the XTZ it was the newest hot ride on the market I could fit into ... I have never needed all the power . the deceleration of two cylinders is nice but really not that big of a deal breaker either.
 
#28 ·
It's interesting that you say that Gary. When I started considering a SxS I was not interested at all in a 1000 and was disappointed when I had 2 different fellows with prowler 1000's expressed interest in making a trade with me for a tractor I had listed. I really was more interested in a 700 or 750 size for the things I knew I'd be doing with it. I'll never have use for the power and speed of a 1000. I did have a fellow with a 700 Rhino interested in a trade too, but it looked pretty used and really was not very interested in such a machine.

Since I have acquired the Prowler, I have become a strong AC advocate in my circle of associates. I actually have one neighbour that is now interested in such a setup as I have to be able to push his snow in the winter and use if for a thousand other tasks in other months of the year. He had an earlier Gator once and was not impressed with it. I told him that these newer machines are a totally different breed. We'll see if he ends up with one. Anyways, I'm glad I've got what I got!!
 
#27 ·
Next major project on mine will be suspension, then look at an engine swap! Want something that can be built! The 750 big bore is nice, but I gotta play! LOL
 
#29 ·
So Hey.....after another set of opinions...... It's obvious that this machine has been apart before, even with the super low kms. Not just the wet clutch nut that was finger loose, but the engine side of the inner cover had been RTV'd to seal where it mated with the wet clutch cover etc. No leaks or anything and so that doesn't bother me. But my question is concerning one of the locating pins was missing. Do you think that this is a big deal or a guy, being careful, can place things where they need to be? My inclination is to say I wish I had all the locating pins, but I can make do without if I have to. Thoughts??
 
#30 ·
The dowel/locating pins keep the clutch in alignment. Short term use without the pin should not stress any clutch components, but mis-alignment may be an issue. I'd use the locating pin closet to the clutch drum. As far as the RTV, as long as the oil passage is clear you should be fine!
 
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