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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Xtz belt slippage

I am experiencing my first belt problems with my XTZ. The machine has 490 miles on it and I do not abuse anything. It was working normally when I went out with my son a week ago. This machine has been in some deeper water without any problems, at all. While we were hitting puddles, we were remarking about how the marsh had dried up. Water was not the problem. All of a sudden, the belt started to slip. We ended up only getting to ride about 3 miles before I started to “limp” for home. After I negotiated the rougher trails, I was able to get the machine to speed up, thereby opening the clutches. The machine then ran normally again. Once back on the main road, 70 mph was achieved, easily. I took the machine apart, looking for a telltale sign of moisture within the clutch case, which I expected. There was ABSOLUTELY NO sign of water or oil. The belt looked factory fresh and measured in at 35mm. The clutches were clean and fine. I went out yesterday and the EXACT same thing happened, at just about the very same point on the trail. This episode was a carbon copy of the first one, including the machine starting to work perfectly, once heading back to the main road. Again, 75 mph was achieved.

I fully realize that I am going to have to go in and look at the belt housing again. I just thought that I would post this and see if anyone else has had a similar experience along with any words of wisdom. I do not want to buy a new belt, if I do not have to. It is not the expense that I worry about. I would have a hard time discarding the current belt or even relying on it as a backup. Out hunting season is coming up soon and I really want to get my confidence back in my PROWLER. By the way, I was also upset ant the amount of disassembly which has to be done in order to examine the belt. It is clear that a serious belt problem, with a PROWLER, while out on the trail, simply means a “tow job” home. I have a 4000lb. WARN winch aboard. I have mounted my actuator box and the remote control plug under my seat, on the floor firewall. In order to save a bunch of work, in the future, I sawed my floor in half, when I had it out. You cannot tell that this has been done and it will save a lot of work, in the future. I do not see any drawbacks to it and believe that it should be a 2 piece unit, anyway.

Does anyone have any comments about the belt slippage that I am experiencing? It behaves as if it is contaminated by oil or water, as I seem able to overcome it and the machine then returns to pulling VERY hard. There is no reason for contamination; however, and I do not believe that this is happening. I am hoping to get the attention of some of the experts like AIRDAM. You guys seem to really know these machines. THX
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:02 PM
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Welcome to the site. You sure it was belt slippage and not spike load dampener slippage. Just wonder if it is not the culprit. If the belt was glazing I am sure you would have seen the signs.



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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the response. I guess that I am not all that sure what spike load dampener slippage is. I am still learning my way around the machine. There was a couple of times, while I was trying to get the speed up, that the belt squealed. One time (only) we could smell it. Despite that, the belt looks perfect. I was not stuck or under any particular load, when the slippage occurred. Is not the spike load dampener within the rear end?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:34 PM
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Oh that changes things then.Not the spike load dampener then. If the belt is squealing then you could have got it hot and glazed it. That happens to me to when I don't use low range for the slow high load stuff. Personally with 500 miles on it and it glazed I would change it and keep it for a spare. My opinion is that once mine get glazed the heat has changed the properties of the belt and they are still usable but they have issues. Like flat spotting or continued glazing.



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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Sandchris:

Thank you for the advice, as well as the welcome to the site. I feel that you are right. When you are travelling, trying to get back to civilization, and you can tell that the belt is slipping by the revving, it is clear that, even without a squeal being heard, the belt is getting likely getting quite a "roasting." You are right on, again, in that I seldom use low gear. I just do not ever seem to detect any kind of a strain on the machine where it would be necessary. Maybe I am wrong about that. It sounds to me that, while I am travelling relatively slow, the belt likely now gets to a certain temperature and begins to slip. The outer walls of the belt, while in good looking shape, do seem to be hard/smooth - likely glazing. Have you ever heard of anyone trying to revitalize that surface with a very light scuffing with fine sandpaper, etc? I am hoping that I do not have to make it a habit to be removong the clutch nut very often. I would hate to damage the machine in that area. That would be next to being fatal......

THX again.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:14 PM
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answer me a few questions

1 - what speeds does it slip at? only slow speeds? when it slips at those speeds are you in any particular load? like climbing out of a ditch? or just on flat ground it slips whenever it decides to?

2 - belt squeal and the smell of belt smoke correct?

3 - the machine is stock? no huge tires? no clutch kits?

4 - yes taking the belt out of an XTZ is a pain. i have had multiple folks want to bring in their machine for me to do the clutches on and i regretfully turned them away, or to another shop to tear their machine down. getting to the belt housing on that machine is a PITA.

answering those 3 questions will help me eliminate some possible suspects in my head. ( i try to go over everything in order to figure out the culprit) to me it sounds more like the secondary is not backshifting properly at some particular time and allowing the belt to go lose in the primary. either that or the rollers have flat spotted and are not allowing a full backshift because they are lodging up in the roller valleys and becoming stuck. that is IF the clutch is stock still. if you have an aftermarket clutch kit or aftermarket secondary spring i can almost guarantee you the answer. but i would like to hear your answers to those questions first.

///AIRDAM clutch machining
< http://airdamclutches.com/ >
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:23 PM
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You are welcome. What I have found is that more than anything it happens to me when ever I am at low speed and try to say crawl over a rock or ledge. I don't really notice a belt slip until I here that squeal then I realize what I just did. It is my opinion that it actually happens easier with a vtwin that has the torque to heat the belt up easily. I would give this a little time and Airdam will chime in. I think the mods he does can help with this problem for you. As far as reconditioning the belt I would think you could do some good as far as getting back to some soft material. Personally I keep em for spares. I will super glue the strands back to the belt and keep using them sometimes. Or I have gone for a nice long ride with slow steady acceleration up and down and straightened some of them out. It takes a long time and does not always work. It depends how bad they are.I have a different animal for clutches than you do so it is kinda a different ball game. I know it sucks to have to spend the money for that belt. But personally Peice of mind is priceless.



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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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AIRDAM & SANDCHRIS:

THX. The two episodes of slippage occurred at 10 – 15mph. Then it continued for some time, until I got turned around and back out to the main road, as outlined above. I was just travelling along a wood road with no particular load on. As I stated, once I get it back to a good road and open up the clutches, she returns completely to normal. It will then pull HARD from a dead stop and will fly. I am wondering if this is simply the belt getting a chance to cool down and return to normal.

There was only two times that a very brief squeal came out of it. The smell of belt smoke happened only once and was also very brief. We did not even see a puff of smoke. In either case, whenever it squealed or smelled, I was quick to get off of the throttle. All of my running gear is stock.

I was wondering about the secondary possibly developing a problem. I am starting to think; however, that the belt is glazed and acts up when it gets to a certain temperature. Have you ever heard of giving a belt a VERY light scuffing to try to reverse that effect?

I appreciate you knowledgeable guys helping us out…..
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:36 PM
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He brings up a good point about flat spots on the rollers. If the belt is hot enough to glaze the clutch could be hot enough to flat spot the rollers. As far as scuffing the belt up it can't hurt to try.



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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:39 PM
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Welcome aboard.

Sandchris and Airdam are two guys that know their stuff so you came to the right place for help. Let us know what the problem was once you have it fixed.
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