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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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650 Carb 101. Please edumacate me....

So my carb on my 650 has randomly dumped gas out of the overflow since I've taken ownership. I've cleaned the carb a couple different times. One person told me to adjust the float height parallel to the carb base which just happened to line up with a notch that was on the float. So I thought that might be correct. Thought the issue was resolved as I haven't seen it dump gas for like a month until yesterday.

But here is the thing. Yesterday it took several cranks to get the cat to start as I haven't had it running in a while. So I guess maybe it flooded. Is this normal what it is doing after flooding it?

I read in the manual to setup float at 17 mm. Where is that measurement taken from? Is that from the base of the carb to the very bottom of the float with the carb held upside down? Can I adjust the float more to prevent this overflowing of gas? If so, what direction am I adjusting the float for that?

Or is it somehow time for a new needle valve and float?

Name: Shane

-2011 Polaris RZR-4 800 (SOLD)
-1999 Polaris Sportsman 500 ATV
-2006 AC Prowler 650XT (SOLD)-- updated bevel gears, updated oil pump driven gear, 4 wheel disc brakes, line lock E-brake, Papa Slap clutch, Xentec HID's, Dynatek CDI, Warn skid plates, Intellitronix gauges, 2010 intake/cvt duct work and dust shield, RZR seats, Bestop folding windshield, full cab kit, rear cage and rear seats (4 seater)
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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float is measured from the base of the carb body where the bowl seals at, to the lowest point of the float when held upside down, going less than the spec could cause you to run out of fuel on a long hard run, i would say that you have a needle and seat problem, either sand or dirt in the seat or the rubber on the needle isnt sealing anymore, after 6 years i would look at the needle closely.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowinsoot00 View Post
float is measured from the base of the carb body where the bowl seals at, to the lowest point of the float when held upside down, going less than the spec could cause you to run out of fuel on a long hard run, i would say that you have a needle and seat problem, either sand or dirt in the seat or the rubber on the needle isnt sealing anymore, after 6 years i would look at the needle closely.
Thanks for the info. I've never really looked too closely at the needle, but if there is an o-ring on it I'll check that out closely (maybe it is just time for a new needle). So this seat that you mention, is that a replaceable part? Sorry for my carb ignorance. Never messed with them much other than changing jets on a different machine...


If/when the carb starts pouring fuel out like this, is there anything that I can do to make it stop (short of ripping out the carb) while on the trail? Will it correct itself while driving? I have an elk hunt coming up and just don't want to get stranded if it starts doing this unexpectedly.

Name: Shane

-2011 Polaris RZR-4 800 (SOLD)
-1999 Polaris Sportsman 500 ATV
-2006 AC Prowler 650XT (SOLD)-- updated bevel gears, updated oil pump driven gear, 4 wheel disc brakes, line lock E-brake, Papa Slap clutch, Xentec HID's, Dynatek CDI, Warn skid plates, Intellitronix gauges, 2010 intake/cvt duct work and dust shield, RZR seats, Bestop folding windshield, full cab kit, rear cage and rear seats (4 seater)
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 08:56 AM
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theres no o-ring on the needle, it has a molded rubber tip on the end of it that seals in the seat,but you can usually buy just a needle. I dont know if the seat is replaceable on the 650, usually aren't on other carbs.

If the float is stuck and causing fuel to overflow on the trail, try smacking the bowl of the carb with the handle of a screw driver, small rock, beer can, whatever you have near you that can tap on the bowl, if the float is stuck this will usually dislodge it, as long as the carb is clean. good luck on youre hunt, youre kitty should be ok for it, just look at the needle, and make sure the float isnt binding anywhere.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowinsoot00 View Post
theres no o-ring on the needle, it has a molded rubber tip on the end of it that seals in the seat,but you can usually buy just a needle. I dont know if the seat is replaceable on the 650, usually aren't on other carbs.

If the float is stuck and causing fuel to overflow on the trail, try smacking the bowl of the carb with the handle of a screw driver, small rock, beer can, whatever you have near you that can tap on the bowl, if the float is stuck this will usually dislodge it, as long as the carb is clean. good luck on youre hunt, youre kitty should be ok for it, just look at the needle, and make sure the float isnt binding anywhere.
Thanks for the info. A new needle is $17 from Derby. I may just order one for a little added insurance. I think I'm going to pull the carb out again, install new needle, adjust float to 17mm, and make sure the seat area is clean. A friend also said to submerge my float in water to make sure there are no pinholes in it. So I'll try that out as well. Tired of this thing doing this.

Name: Shane

-2011 Polaris RZR-4 800 (SOLD)
-1999 Polaris Sportsman 500 ATV
-2006 AC Prowler 650XT (SOLD)-- updated bevel gears, updated oil pump driven gear, 4 wheel disc brakes, line lock E-brake, Papa Slap clutch, Xentec HID's, Dynatek CDI, Warn skid plates, Intellitronix gauges, 2010 intake/cvt duct work and dust shield, RZR seats, Bestop folding windshield, full cab kit, rear cage and rear seats (4 seater)
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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I checked my float height and it was set around 16 mm. I adjusted it closer to 17 mm now. Submerged the float and don't see it taking on any water. Inspected the valve and don't see anything wrong with it. The rubber tip looks okay. Blew out the seat area and didn't notice anything wrong in there. So what's next? Is it just time to try a new valve and see what happens?

Name: Shane

-2011 Polaris RZR-4 800 (SOLD)
-1999 Polaris Sportsman 500 ATV
-2006 AC Prowler 650XT (SOLD)-- updated bevel gears, updated oil pump driven gear, 4 wheel disc brakes, line lock E-brake, Papa Slap clutch, Xentec HID's, Dynatek CDI, Warn skid plates, Intellitronix gauges, 2010 intake/cvt duct work and dust shield, RZR seats, Bestop folding windshield, full cab kit, rear cage and rear seats (4 seater)
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out west View Post
I checked my float height and it was set around 16 mm. I adjusted it closer to 17 mm now. Submerged the float and don't see it taking on any water. Inspected the valve and don't see anything wrong with it. The rubber tip looks okay. Blew out the seat area and didn't notice anything wrong in there. So what's next? Is it just time to try a new valve and see what happens?
does it only do it while running, or will it do it with the motor not running? usually you cant tell if a needle is bad, since youre in there you may as well replace it. the needle and float are the only thing that would cause it to overflow, and floats usually dont get holes in them, unless theyre plastic, and if the float is set to spec. and doesnt bind going through its travel on the slide pin, then id say all points to the needle. let us know what happens
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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does it only do it while running, or will it do it with the motor not running? usually you cant tell if a needle is bad, since youre in there you may as well replace it. the needle and float are the only thing that would cause it to overflow, and floats usually dont get holes in them, unless theyre plastic, and if the float is set to spec. and doesnt bind going through its travel on the slide pin, then id say all points to the needle. let us know what happens
Only does when running, and no rhyme or reason when it does it. Although the last time it took several times to crank over (but I guess somewhat normal on the 650's after not running for a while). And the float is plastic. Didn't think it would get a hole, but I have heard it done. No binding of the float that I can tell.

Name: Shane

-2011 Polaris RZR-4 800 (SOLD)
-1999 Polaris Sportsman 500 ATV
-2006 AC Prowler 650XT (SOLD)-- updated bevel gears, updated oil pump driven gear, 4 wheel disc brakes, line lock E-brake, Papa Slap clutch, Xentec HID's, Dynatek CDI, Warn skid plates, Intellitronix gauges, 2010 intake/cvt duct work and dust shield, RZR seats, Bestop folding windshield, full cab kit, rear cage and rear seats (4 seater)
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 11:19 AM
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I'd lean towards it being the needle as well, the rubber may look ok but over time they may shrink or lose shape just enough to cause this problem. Make sure the pin on the float itself isn't out of round as well or have wear, this would cause the float to occasionally bind and cause a flooding issue. Hope you get it figured out and running, keep us updated.

2010 700XTX Orange -- Custom snorkel, Diff. vent mod (dry cavity), Bighorn 2.0's on custom painted "blacked out" rims, HMF Swamp Series XL with turn down, /// airdam stage 5, Some EPI goodies, Dynatek FS, Chrome headlight covers, Flip out windshield. "Cooler Hauler" ... Sold for another toy but still hangin around
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-11-2012, 11:40 AM
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Is it possible for a vacuum operated pump to put out too much flow occasionally? I'm injected so im not sure on the pump...just another idea
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