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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2007 PROWLER XT 650 H1

Problem is oil consumption. About 125 miles to a quart. (just above low mark)

I rebuilt the motor to improve problem to no avail. Compression is 180 psi.

You do not see smoke but do smell it. Some carbonation on plug as seen in pic

I did break it in with synthetic oil. (about 1200 miles) There are no leaks after replacing o ring on primary clutch shaft.

New parts in top end are head, OEM piston/rings and cylinder. rebuilt carburetor

Im wondering if problem could be the new oil control ring? Maybe notches lined up during break in?

Thats a lot of oil for valve seals which are new but good compression. Maybe a WISECO piston would be better?

anything Im missing? thanks for your help
 

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2007 PROWLER XT 650 H1

Problem is oil consumption. About 125 miles to a quart. (just above low mark)

I rebuilt the motor to improve problem to no avail. Compression is 180 psi.

You do not see smoke but do smell it. Some carbonation on plug as seen in pic

I did break it in with synthetic oil. (about 1200 miles) There are no leaks after replacing o ring on primary clutch shaft.

New parts in top end are head, OEM piston/rings and cylinder. rebuilt carburetor

Im wondering if problem could be the new oil control ring? Maybe notches lined up during break in?

Thats a lot of oil for valve seals which are new but good compression. Maybe a WISECO piston would be better?

anything Im missing? thanks for your help
Hi New to forum, 2010 XTX700 6500km
Same problem using oil after new piston and rings installed using 0-40 synthetic as beak in driving slow and varied to insure break in. Oil smell only so its burning oil & fowling plug.
Will be tearing down top end once again to see what the cylinder walls have done, honed and cross hatched at rebuild which I thought was good enough to over come the shinny spot where piston runs but maybe it was not enough to over come glazing? Previously used 20-50 amsoil which I found out is the thinnest 20-50 on the market thus 0-40 is best for year round, blamed oil for glazing of cylinder.
Last time engine smoked out exhaust when punching throttle but not at cruise or idle; problem turned out to be both exhaust seals and cylinder wall glazing so I put new seals and piston and it sounded and ran better. After about 50 miles started to smell oil it had burnt 3/4 quart over 20 miles slow running and fouled spark plug leading to hard start in cold temp.
Will be working on issue over the coming month with special attention to cylinder wall.

fleabittentigre
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good questions, I had used a regular bar honer and thought I had good crosshatch but I hear the ball honer does better job but there pricey. Since my post I found compression to be about 120 after running it longer. Manuel says lower than that and there is a decompression thingy on camshaft. Also did a blow down test and had only 3 per cent leakage @90 psi. Funny thing was when I rotated crank I didn't hear or feel any air out exhaust or carb...weird but it runs fine. (besides oil smell burning) This problem has happened twice now with OEM piston/rings. Thinking WISECO piston next time and have someone else hone it
 

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Good questions, I had used a regular bar honer and thought I had good crosshatch but I hear the ball honer does better job but there pricey. Since my post I found compression to be about 120 after running it longer. Manuel says lower than that and there is a decompression thingy on camshaft. Also did a blow down test and had only 3 per cent leakage @90 psi. Funny thing was when I rotated crank I didn't hear or feel any air out exhaust or carb...weird but it runs fine. (besides oil smell burning) This problem has happened twice now with OEM piston/rings. Thinking WISECO piston next time and have someone else hone it
I used both a bar hone and ball hone and the glaze seemed to be conquered, bar hone removes the glaze and ball hone creates a nice cross hatch will see what happened after I take top end apart later. Have not checked compression yet. Used cat piston and rings after checking bore diameter and ring end gap all come in with in spec. This is confusing and leads me to the cylinder bore the only issue where oil can by pass and burn?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes it sucks when you think you did every thing right. Did check ring gaps (.014) and it was good. The cylinder is fairly new as well. The ring gaps for the oil control rings are only set about 90 degrees according to manual and am told those don't show up on a compression test as well as valve stem seals. (which are new) Hard to believe those seals could leak that much consumption. I'm running Rotella t6 oil. These things probably use some oil when new but not 120 miles to a quart! Rebuilt carburetor thinking it was running too rich but that wasn't it. Frustrated!
 

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Hi New to forum, 2010 XTX700 6500km
Same problem using oil after new piston and rings installed using 0-40 synthetic as beak in driving slow and varied to insure break in. Oil smell only so its burning oil & fowling plug.
Will be tearing down top end once again to see what the cylinder walls have done, honed and cross hatched at rebuild which I thought was good enough to over come the shinny spot where piston runs but maybe it was not enough to over come glazing? Previously used 20-50 amsoil which I found out is the thinnest 20-50 on the market thus 0-40 is best for year round, blamed oil for glazing of cylinder.
Last time engine smoked out exhaust when punching throttle but not at cruise or idle; problem turned out to be both exhaust seals and cylinder wall glazing so I put new seals and piston and it sounded and ran better. After about 50 miles started to smell oil it had burnt 3/4 quart over 20 miles slow running and fouled spark plug leading to hard start in cold temp.
Will be working on issue over the coming month with special attention to cylinder wall.

fleabittentigre
Manual calls for ball hone only, cylinder chrome is thin. Could your oil control ring be upside down?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
good question. I did what manual said about making sure they did not overlap, but don't see it saying any direction up or down? If the end of expander is overlapped, I don't think there is enough room for entire ring to set in piston groove properly. I think I have gap facing down. Ya know I wish I would of bought ball honer now:(:(

49979
 

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good question. I did what manual said about making sure they did not overlap, but don't see it saying any direction up or down? If the end of expander is overlapped, I don't think there is enough room for entire ring to set in piston groove properly. I think I have gap facing down. Ya know I wish I would of bought ball honer now:(:(

View attachment 49979
 

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Rings usually have a stamped dot indicating the top
 

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Yeah, I stand corrected! Thanks
Hi New to forum, 2010 XTX700 6500km
Same problem using oil after new piston and rings installed using 0-40 synthetic as beak in driving slow and varied to insure break in. Oil smell only so its burning oil & fowling plug.
Will be tearing down top end once again to see what the cylinder walls have done, honed and cross hatched at rebuild which I thought was good enough to over come the shinny spot where piston runs but maybe it was not enough to over come glazing? Previously used 20-50 amsoil which I found out is the thinnest 20-50 on the market thus 0-40 is best for year round, blamed oil for glazing of cylinder.
Last time engine smoked out exhaust when punching throttle but not at cruise or idle; problem turned out to be both exhaust seals and cylinder wall glazing so I put new seals and piston and it sounded and ran better. After about 50 miles started to smell oil it had burnt 3/4 quart over 20 miles slow running and fouled spark plug leading to hard start in cold temp.
Will be working on issue over the coming month with special attention to cylinder wall.

fleabittentigre
Well I tore down top end and the oil rings all seemed to align gaps in one place thus burning oil explained, so spaced out all three gaps as specs and assembled. Now I must test run and see if that cures the problem. Evidence was on the head showing carbon build up but not on the spark plug just the exhaust side of valves. Damn I thought during initial rebuild I put all gaps apart but I used my fingers to get piston into cylinder so must have caused some turning of rings. Cylinder looks great with no glazing and minimal cross hatching but still dull finish so its all good. Run for a few minutes and change the oil then go for a rip and see if oil smell is gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I tore down top end and the oil rings all seemed to align gaps in one place thus burning oil explained, so spaced out all three gaps as specs and assembled. Now I must test run and see if that cures the problem. Evidence was on the head showing carbon build up but not on the spark plug just the exhaust side of valves. Damn I thought during initial rebuild I put all gaps apart but I used my fingers to get piston into cylinder so must have caused some turning of rings. Cylinder looks great with no glazing and minimal cross hatching but still dull finish so its all good. Run for a few minutes and change the oil then go for a rip and see if oil smell is gone.
Let me know the results! Maybe not enough cross hatch when you put it together. I was wondering if the gas pressure would rotate rings right away if that can rotate before they seat. I like the pins on 2 stroke pistons was told because they have them
higher operating rpms than 4 strokes
 

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Let me know the results! Maybe not enough cross hatch when you put it together. I was wondering if the gas pressure would rotate rings right away if that can rotate before they seat. I like the pins on 2 stroke pistons was told because they have them
higher operating rpms than 4 strokes
Pretty sure I screwed up using fingers to squeeze rings into cylinder but it is possible they turned because piston leans and all gaps were on the low side? Cross hatch was good and cylinder was still showing signs of not entirely broke in. Will use machine this weekend and see if oil consumption stops. Now the water pump is leaking a little so more parts to order. Your right about piston pins they should also be on this machine but this single cyl 700 is a piece of **** compared to other motors from other brands, its always been loud and rattily, with only 6400 km having to redo piston is a joke especially when considering most of my driving is at low speeds in rough terrain, maybe something to do with air intake but I have double filters with filter oil to catch fine particles and clean monthly, time to get a snorkel kit. I could understand racing at high speeds all the time would cause premature wear but this is not the case so will continue pouring parts in until its good again along with a set of King Shocks (soon to arrive) then some fresh tires and complete bearing replace in all differentials and wheels (x3) this thing should last an other 10 years, I hope. So far I have replaced all axles, all a-arm bushing and bearings, wheel bearing multiple times and a belt. I have a snowmobile with 12,000km all high speed running and its tight and runs great even after 11 years of **** and abuse. Should have bought the 1000 twin!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Pretty sure I screwed up using fingers to squeeze rings into cylinder but it is possible they turned because piston leans and all gaps were on the low side? Cross hatch was good and cylinder was still showing signs of not entirely broke in. Will use machine this weekend and see if oil consumption stops. Now the water pump is leaking a little so more parts to order. Your right about piston pins they should also be on this machine but this single cyl 700 is a piece of ** compared to other motors from other brands, its always been loud and rattily, with only 6400 km having to redo piston is a joke especially when considering most of my driving is at low speeds in rough terrain, maybe something to do with air intake but I have double filters with filter oil to catch fine particles and clean monthly, time to get a snorkel kit. I could understand racing at high speeds all the time would cause premature wear but this is not the case so will continue pouring parts in until its good again along with a set of King Shocks (soon to arrive) then some fresh tires and complete bearing replace in all differentials and wheels (x3) this thing should last an other 10 years, I hope. So far I have replaced all axles, all a-arm bushing and bearings, wheel bearing multiple times and a belt. I have a snowmobile with 12,000km all high speed running and its tight and runs great even after 11 years of ** and abuse. Should have bought the 1000 twin!
I doubt it is piston lean and that you rotated one by mistake a 180 degrees (or combination of both) with your fingers. I used a radiator hose for ring compression. Keeping the oil control ring gaps apart which is only 90 degrees apart is the trickiest. These rings must be not seating properly. This even happened with a new cylinder! I think the chrome coating is so much harder steel (and hard to hone) than the rings. That first 50 miles is critical and no synthetic oil this time Got the plow on now. Spring project.......ya should just go get a Polaris.
 

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I doubt it is piston lean and that you rotated one by mistake a 180 degrees (or combination of both) with your fingers. I used a radiator hose for ring compression. Keeping the oil control ring gaps apart which is only 90 degrees apart is the trickiest. These rings must be not seating properly. This even happened with a new cylinder! I think the chrome coating is so much harder steel (and hard to hone) than the rings. That first 50 miles is critical and no synthetic oil this time Got the plow on now. Spring project.......ya should just go get a Polaris.
Put some 2 stroke oil in gas and drove it at various speeds, its now all good. Sure it was my mistake with finger install the first time it was a struggle doing it in machine, next time pull the engine out. Rebuilding everything else now that winter is set in so should be a great machine again next spring.
 

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Put some 2 stroke oil in gas and drove it at various speeds, its now all good. Sure it was my mistake with finger install the first time it was a struggle doing it in machine, next time pull the engine out. Rebuilding everything else now that winter is set in so should be a great machine again next spring.
Getting the rings back in the cylinder can be a pain! Glad you got it running!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Getting the rings back in the cylinder can be a pain! Glad you got it running!
Thanks. Ill pull the head in the spring and see if same thing happened to me. Doing in machine does suck. Got to look into a better ring compressor that fits. (not too tall) The hose clamp screw part does not seat probably. Might still try a Wesco piston
 

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Thanks. Ill pull the head in the spring and see if same thing happened to me. Doing in machine does suck. Got to look into a better ring compressor that fits. (not too tall) The hose clamp screw part does not seat probably. Might still try a Wesco piston
I picked up a small chainfall from Harbor Freight that makes getting the motor out a breeze! Support it off the overhead X-Brace, also put a 2X12 across the frame that extends outward several feet (leg under to support it) so I can slide the motor out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I picked up a small chainfall from Harbor Freight that makes getting the motor out a breeze! Support it off the overhead X-Brace, also put a 2X12 across the frame that extends outward several feet (leg under to support it) so I can slide the motor out.
Ha I did the same thing! Did it with a skid loader the first time. Cant beat getting the right tools for the job
 
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