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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
New member here so first off, hi all.

I've Googled and searched this and a few other forums on this topic over the past 3 weeks. I've seen the issue discussed here for the EFI models and checked the air-intake boot anyway. Couldn't hurt.

Here's the issue. When cold, as soon as it starts, it runs fine for about 5-8 seconds. Then jumps up idle to about 3000 RPM. If not in gear, you can't put it in gear due to the idle and transmission mesh/sync. Cut it off, put in any gear, start it back up. Goes to high idle and if you drive for 30 feet or so and it will drop the idle back down to the normal 1350 RPM. And as long as the engine's warm, it's OK. Once cold again, same thing.

I checked the electronic choke. I would "assume" that if it was unplugged and 45 degrees out this morning, it would not start that well if at all. Right??? Well, fired right up first try and did the exact same thing. I took it out, but not sure how to test it. Thoughts?? My plan for this afternoon is to get it warmed up and running right. Unplug the choke and try it again tomorrow morning to see if that has any effects whatsoever.

Just started this 3 weeks back and I've racked my brain as to what it is. Any and all help/suggestions/tips will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks from the newbie!!
 

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Sounds like an air bypass valve is stuck that adjusts the idle, kind of like the old throttle body fuel injection on the old school ford and chevys. Or an ambient temp sensor issue ? On snowmobiles if you unplug the coolant temp sensor it will run full fuel for like -60* and jack the idle until warm.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks DR. Where/how might this be checked on the 650?

And, the leaving unplugged and started this morning was a no go. Started right up and went right to 2800 RPM.

HELP GUYS!!!!! Local AC dealer not the best to deal with and they are 65 miles away.
 

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My water temp sensor was unplugged, noticed it when I did my valves awhile back. Seems like it idled wierd but not as bad as yours is. As I recall its on the passenger side of the head, you'll see it once you get to looking. Have you cleaned your carb? I would try that too if nothing else works. I found my main jet was almost completely clogged up last summer.
 

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If there is a sensor fault the digital display will make the speedo do a full sweep and EFI will flash indicating there is a code. I am trying to find out which wires to jump in the diagnostic plug to spit out the codes.
 

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Found it..

If you don't have the plug, jump the blue/red wire to black with a paper clip or similar object

ECU Error Codes
If a sensor fails or an out-of-tolerance signal is sensed by the ECU, an error code will be generated by the ECU. This will result in the analog needle swinging full scale. The EFI icon will flash.
To read the error code(s), use the following procedure:
1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the OFF position; then remove the seats.
2. Locate the diagnostic plug next to the PDM; then remove the black rubber cap.
3. Connect the Test Plug from Test Plug/Error Code List to the diagnostic plug.
4. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and read the error code on the LCD. Refer to the following ECU Error Code List to identify the specific problem area.
ECU Error Code List
NOTE: Each of the following numerical codes will have a two-letter prefix. A prefix of AC (Active Code) or SC (Stored Code) will be displayed.
Always correct and clear Active Codes before clearing Stored Codes.

• 00 = No Fault Detected (active code only)
• 12 = CKP (Crankshaft Position) Sensor*
• 13 = APS (Air Pressure Sensor) - H1
• 13 = MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor - H2
• 14 = TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
• 15 = ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) Sensor
• 16 = Speed Sensor
• 21 = IAT (Inlet Air Temperature) Sensor
• 23 = Tilt Sensor*
• 24 = Ignition Coil #1*
• 26 = Ignition Coil #2* - H2
• 32 = Fuel Injector #1*
• 34 = Fuel Injector #2* - H2
• 40 = ISC (Idle Speed Control) Valve
• 41 = Fuel Pump Relay*
• 60 = Cooling Fan Relay
• 95 = Sensor Power
• 96 = Incorrect ECU*
• 97 = ECU Memory Power (constant battery power)
• 98 = ECU to Gauge Comm Link - H2
• 99 = Start/Run Not Possible (active code only)
*Will initiate code 99.
After all stored codes are cleared, clear the error code(s) using the following procedure.
NOTE: The ignition switch should be in the OFF position.
1. With the test plug connected to the diagnostic plug and the drive select switch in the 4WD position, hold the reverse override switch down and turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. After ten seconds, release the reverse override switch and turn the ignition switch to the OFF position; then turn the ignition switch to the ON position. The display should read AC00 (no fault detected).
NOTE: If the LCD still displays an error code, continue troubleshooting the appropriate component.
Last edited by Krom; 01-27-2011 at 08:25 PM.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SWEET. Thanks Guys. I'll check all of this tomorrow when back home!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
In the service manual, that says that's for the XTX but I went ahead checked just in case - hoping and praying - but the XT has no diagnostics plug or harness next to the PDM. So I jumped the red/blue with the black out of the ECU, or I guess the CDI on the XT and turned on the key. No code shows on the gauge. Did I goof something?

Any other ideas? If the choke is unhooked and it's cold out, should it start so easily?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My water temp sensor was unplugged, noticed it when I did my valves awhile back. Seems like it idled wierd but not as bad as yours is. As I recall its on the passenger side of the head, you'll see it once you get to looking. Have you cleaned your carb? I would try that too if nothing else works. I found my main jet was almost completely clogged up last summer.
Water temp sensor was good. Carb is actually half off right now as I was going to check that again as well as the valve clearance. Thanks for the ideas!!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK. Now I'm baffled. :confused: And I must correct a previous post about the carb. It was "almost" off but I decided to do the easier of the two first. Adjusted the valves with the go-no-go system. Used .004" on the front, then put in a .005" and tightened until it would not slip in and out anymore. Checked with the .004" and tighened the nuts down. Same on back with .006" and .007". Decided it wouldn't take but a minute to take the air cleaner back off if nothing changed so I threw it back on. Hooked everything back up and BAM!! Started right up and runs perfect. First time?????

The valves were loose by maybe a thousandth or two and not even from what I felt from one to the other. It is warm out, which hasn't made any difference over the past 4 weeks, so I'll check it again tomorrow morning when it's cooler and still in the 40's and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Fingers crossed didn't help. Started just fine and within 5 seconds or so climbed to about 2800 RPM. Guess I'll tear into the carb this weekend. Any other thoughts out there guys??
 

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This is just a stab in the dark because I not an expert by any means on these carbs but could it maybe be an issue with the vacuum piston for the needle jet? if it was wore wouldn't it cause this issue if it wasn't getting a proper seal? like I say I'm not an expert so maybe just a good question to ask someone more qualified.. Hope it helps
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
$75 bucks for all 4 items associated with the vacuum plunger from Babbit's so I'll check it first when I get it apart and report back. Thanks AlmostxProwler:cool:!!

And as he said, "ask someone more qualified.." so, I'm-a-asking!!!
 

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You do have the idle screw backed off right?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes I do. As I originally posted, if you drive it a short distance, it drops down and idles where it should right around 1300 RPM.
 

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Sounds like you have an air leak bypassing the carb butterfly until it warms up. Gasket maybe or a crack in the intake tube ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Will add that to my check list. I got the carb off yesterday but have some surgery planed for next week. So. I'll post back once I get that cleaned up and anything that needs replaced replaced and back together. Hopefully I'll have this thing running without any hitches soon as I have plans for wheels, lift, camo-wrap, etc... but have held off until I get it running smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Couldn't wait - tore the carb down. How do you get the pilot screw out?????:confused: Not the slotted jets but the round stud with one flat area. The shop manual shows a slotted pilot screw but mine's not. Looks like a solid "D".

The vacuum piston has some black discoloration on the white plastic so I'm going to replace it. The seal around the inside also seems to not be very tight.
 

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Pretty sure that is idle air you are referring too.

On my old 650 I used a small set of needle nose pliers to get it out.
Then slotted it with a cut off tool so I could use a screw driver in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks riddler28. Got it out, notched it and it made things much easier.

Cleaned everything up but didn't replace anything yet and so far it starts and idles MUCH better. Still idles around 1600-ish for a bit then drops to about 1400. What's the "normal" start-up idle characteristic of the 650?

If I adjust the idle when warmed up to the recommended 1250-1350, you can clearly hear the "miss" as it's about to stall. 1450-1500 rpm seems to keep it happy with no gear mesh.

Will adjusting the idle or pilot screw help lean this out? Now that it's notched, it shouldn't be a problem to fine-tune it. Was amazed after putting it back together and turning out the 2 turns recommended, that it started up so smoothly. Even had the idle screw back in near perfect...:rolleyes:
 
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